Hmmmm....all of the video demonstrations by Tomaello have demonstrated right arm acceleration with the right arm particularly the right forearm starting the club down at the beginning of the downstroke...the right arm has supplied all of the power...what Tomasello taught was not a true 4 barrel swinging procedure...not once did he mention 4 barrel swinging.
IT'S a RIGHT ARM SWINGING MOTION...hence, a true RIGHT ARM SWING (cocking and uncocking the right elbow through the muscles of the right forearm)...see 10-11-0-1.
If you think Tomasello didn't teach a Right Arm Swing...please put together the set of components that make a up a real RIGHT ARM SWING...lets see how different it is from what Tomasello taught.
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 10-30-2005 at 12:33 PM.
So if the lower body starts the swing, it is not a Right Arm Swing?
I can live with that.
I bump and turn my hips before the hands drop giving my left shoulder a chance to relocate when the time comes.
I have an active right arm, too, that as Ben (Mr. Swing) points out is always 'driving.' Mine drives and straightens. Does Ben unknowningly teach a right arm swing?
There is no problem believing in a right arm swing- I just have difficultly making the connection with what you say it is and what others feel a Hit or a left shoulder swing pattern is.
On any of the clips, does TT say, "This is a right arm swing" ?? I may have missed it.
So if the lower body starts the swing, it is not a Right Arm Swing?
I can live with that.
I bump and turn my hips before the hands drop giving my left shoulder a chance to relocate when the time comes.
I have an active right arm, too, that as Ben (Mr. Swing) points out is always 'driving.' Mine drives and straightens. Does Ben unknowningly teach a right arm swing?
There is no problem believing in a right arm swing- I just have difficultly making the connection with what you say it is and what others feel a Hit or a left shoulder swing pattern is.
On any of the clips, does TT say, "This is a right arm swing" ?? I may have missed it.
If your right arm is truly active (you the golfer ADDING RIGHT ARM THRUST) per the comment about Ben Doyle then your 4 Barrel Swinging per 2-M-3. I've heard that Ben teaches 4 barrel swinging.
In the Australia video, Tomasello only refers to the swinging stroke pattern as SWINGING. Is that because he truly believes the 12-2-0 uses a right arm trigger at startdown...read and study component 24 from that pattern in the 6th edition.
10-24-B NON-AUTOMATIC RANDOM SWEEP "This procedure is identical with "A" above except that the deliberate manipulation of the Release (Non-Automatic Trigger) is delayed until some preselected point in the Downstroke is reached.
Hmmmm....sounds like we need to take a look a 10-24-A since Homer say it's identical to 10-24-B.
10-24-A FULL SWEEP RELEASE This procedure Triggers the Release at the Start Down by either the Hand Throw or the Right Arm Throw (10-20) Non-Automatic Trigger Types. All the employed Accumulators slowly and evely straighten and the Clubhead slowly and evenly accelerates through Impact per 2-N. See 6-C-2-B.
Hmmmm....sounds like Tomasello was using 10-24-B word for word from the book!!!
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 10-30-2005 at 09:05 PM.
My take is (and I'm working from memory here as I don't have the book in front of me):
(1) That with reference to the right arm throw, the book only says "usually restricted to hitting".
(2) That while TT may be using a right arm throw (it certainly seems that way from the Myrtle Beach video), it would be in combination with a wrist throw (keeping the right palm on the plane to insure a sequenced release).
(3) That somewhere in the early chapters Homer talks about how even if the right arm powers the stroke, it is still a left arm stroke because the stroke is still around the left shoulder centre. This would seem to me to be the case with the TT stroke. While it is right arm powered (and possibly a drag loading procedure, I'm still not sure its not a hit with a sequenced release), the left shoulder remains the centre of the stoke. So, it's not a 'pure' right arm swing, where the right elbow is the centre of the stroke. Nonetheless, it might be a right arm powered swing.
My take is (and I'm working from memory here as I don't have the book in front of me):
(1) That with reference to the right arm throw, the book only says "usually restricted to hitting".
(2) That while TT may be using a right arm throw (it certainly seems that way from the Myrtle Beach video), it would be in combination with a wrist throw (keeping the right palm on the plane to insure a sequenced release).
(3) That somewhere in the early chapters Homer talks about how even if the right arm powers the stroke, it is still a left arm stroke because the stroke is still around the left shoulder centre. This would seem to me to be the case with the TT stroke. While it is right arm powered (and possibly a drag loading procedure, I'm still not sure its not a hit with a sequenced release), the left shoulder remains the centre of the stoke. So, it's not a 'pure' right arm swing, where the right elbow is the centre of the stroke. Nonetheless, it might be a right arm powered swing.
Chris
If you read Tomasello's Golf Illustrated interview he talks about ....Levering and UnLevering the Right Elbow...he seemed to be focused on the right elbow...I have Tomasello on cassette tape (from my lessons with Tommy) saying the application of power (or applying power) comes from Levering (cocking) and Unlevering (uncocking) the right elbow not from the lower body...
I really respect Tom Tomasello as a teacher and he has a great procedure himself but there have been many errors in his teachings relative to the golfing machine. For example, I don't think anyone could deny that Tom doesn't have a clue on what a push basic stroke is for example.
I voted for unclear. He demonstrated the wrist throw, saying that instinct will tell your pivot when to contribute. The thing that differentiates the hand throw (hazardous except for well educated hands) from the wrist throw is that the wrist throw works in conjuction with a shoulder turn throw to enable a greater trigger delay as apposed to gradually straightening the lever assemblies in the hand throw.
So he must of been using a shoulder turn throw in conjustion and further proof that he understood this isn't what actually happens when he demonstrated the difference between real(on video) vs feel(intention). I have no doubt on his intention but was that just the motion of the right forearm whilst throwing out the left arm (the real) vs actively driving it. Its hard to say.... Im not 100% sure he knows himself.
Last edited by Mathew : 10-30-2005 at 07:25 PM.
Reason: adding to it
If your right arm is truly active (you the golfer ADDING RIGHT ARM THRUST) per the comment about Ben Doyle then your 4 Barrel Swinging per 2-M-3. I've heard that Ben teaches 4 barrel swinging.
In the Australia video, Tomasello only refers to the swinging stroke pattern as SWINGING. Is that because he truly believes the 12-2-0 uses a right arm trigger at startdown...read and study component 24 from that pattern in the 6th edition.
10-24-B NON-AUTOMATIC RANDOM SWEEP "This procedure is identical with "A" above except that the deliberate manipulation of the Release (Non-Automatic Trigger) is delayed until some preselected point in the Downstroke is reached.
Hmmmm....sounds like we need to take a look a 10-24-A since Homer say it's identical to 10-24-B.
10-24-A FULL SWEEP RELEASE This procedure Trigges the Release at the Start Dwon by either the Hand Throw or the Right Arm Throw (10-20) Non-Automatic Trigger Types. All the employed Accumulators slowly and evely straighten and the Clubhead slowly and evenly accelerates through Impact per 2-N. See 6-C-2-B.
Hmmmm....sounds like Tomasello was using 10-24-B word for word from the book!!!
DG
I just deleted my original post DG. But every time I try to respond - I get pissy. You are very condescending in your remarks. If you want to talk to me don’t use the third person We. I read the book. Second- you are dead wrong- and so is Tom Tomsella- sorry. Both of you are confused about Swinging and hitting and what Homer wrote. I don’t claim to be an expert- I study very hard and explore it from different sources. The right arm swing you proclaim may just be a Hit stroke. Maybe- you call everything a right arm swing from Ernie Els to Harvey Penick.
I just deleted my original post DG. But every time I try to respond - I get pissy. You are very condescending in your remarks. If you want to talk to me don’t use the third person We. I read the book. Second- you are dead wrong- and so is Tom Tomsella- sorry. Both of you are confused about Swinging and hitting and what Homer wrote. I don’t claim to be an expert- I study very hard and explore it from different sources. The right arm swing you proclaim may just be a Hit stroke. Maybe- you call everything a right arm swing from Ernie Els to Harvey Penick.
Mike,
Have you read Ernie Els book "How to Build a Classic Golf Swing"???
Mike...I'm sorry my comments bring out negative emotions for you (none of my comments are pointed directly at you...when I said "WE" I meant me included), I'm just here like everyone else trying to seek/find the truth.
When the ball goes long and straight and lands two to three from the pin (or better yet shots become predictable)...I would say I found the truth...I was producing shots like that with the procedure that Tomasello taught. I'm sorry if that is a problem. Maybe you should stir clear of my posts, if it is a real problem...that is the only solution I have at this time.
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 10-30-2005 at 09:15 PM.
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