Stack & Tilt, 5 Simple Key and Tilt, Extension and Rotation - LynnBlakeGolf Forums

Stack & Tilt, 5 Simple Key and Tilt, Extension and Rotation

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  #1  
Old 11-04-2013, 10:07 PM
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Daryti Daryti is offline
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Stack & Tilt, 5 Simple Key and Tilt, Extension and Rotation
This is my belief, like to hear everyone opinion.

5 Simple Key (5SK):
One of the founder, Chuck, was a GSED and what 5SK is doing is 100% based on TGM but expressing it in a different way (layman term).

5SK:
Station Head => Stationary Head of the 3 Essential;
Weight Forward => Lag of the 3 Imperiative;
Flat left wrist => Flat left wrist of the 3 Imperiative;
Diagonal Club path => Plane of the 3 Imperiative;
Club face control => Flat Left wrist, Chapter 4 and 5

5SK claims that they are not a pattern or a system but a must for a correct golf swing. I also found there are a not of similarity with Stack and Tilt on what they actually teach:

1. Flare both feet out;
2. Right hip slant up on the backswing;
3. Extension rotation and tilting on backswing;
4. Extension at impact, belt buckle up...

What I found in the book is it cover everything, but the "how" is sometimes lacking. For example, rotation shoulder but how? In the Stack and Tilt and 5SK, it explains that you need extension, rotation and tilting in order to get a stationary head and steep shoulder turn for the rotated shoulder turn. I also couldn't find these term (Extension, tilting etc) in the TGM but I believe somehow is cover somewhere.

Appreciate all comments to make it more understandable on the Golfing Machine.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:37 AM
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The Flat Left Wrist allows the creation of a Primary Lever which can be Hinged (not necessarily) at the Left Shoulder causing the Clubface and Ball to rotate around the Impact Point which causes the Ball to respond to an Angular Force as though it were struck with a Linear Force.

Only TGM teaches the "How" and "Why".

Above is an explanation "Why" you need a Flat Left Wrist. The "How" is a Completely different matter. First, your "Flying Wedges" must be aligned at 90 degrees through the Impact Interval. Don't try to keep a Flat Left Wrist at Impact while swinging at 100 MPH, because you can't. When the "Wedges" are Aligned at 90 degrees through Impact, the Left Wrist will be Flat no matter how hard or soft you Swing.

The "5 Simple Keys" or "S&T" doesn't teach any of this.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:26 PM
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Daryti Daryti is offline
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I totally agree with you. The flat left wrist also provides the clubface control. How about the extension, rotation and tilting that said is needed for the stationary head and the 90 degree shoulder turn with the spine? For example, if only tilting it will move your shoulder centre and therefore head moves to the right. Does TGM provide this explanation (tilting, extension and rotation) somewhere in the book?

BTW, it has been very quiet in this forum for past few months. This forum is very helpful and super for information and learning.
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:42 PM
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It does, but I don't know if you'll understand given my poor description below. It all comes under the heading "Role of the Right Shoulder".

The Right Forearm needs to be On Plane at Impact. Every good Ball-Striker does this instinctively. Each Plane Angle (Shorter Clubs have Steeper Plane Angles) has a Stance Width to keep the Right Shoulder the needed distance from the Ball so that the Right Forearm can be On Plane at Impact by arriving through its Angle of Approach. If the Stance Width is too narrow, then you must either "Tilt" to the Right (Accommodating the Right Forearm Angle of Approach) or add a Swivel through Impact because the Right Forearm is coming in to high.

If you're "Tilting" to the Right, then "Widen" your Stance. By Widening your Stance, you'll no longer need to tilt and you'll stop Tilting.

Some players shift their Hips forward and they learn to Tilt to Improve their Approach Angle. Others simply learn that Tilting to the right lets them approach the ball from a shallower angle and using a narrower Stance makes all things easier.

Either way, these compensations correct a faulty Right Shoulder distance from the Ball which causes a Faulty Approach Angle which is caused by incorrect Stance Width.

Want to prove this? Take a narrow Stance and Play the Ball far forward the left foot way beyond the left shoulder. Hit a few balls but move the ball forward until you no longer tilt backwards while striking the ball. Then move the ball and your right foot back 5" at a time and strike the ball. When the ball and right foot has been moved back a few times and the ball becomes opposite your left shoulder, look how wide your stance has become.

Hint: This is what "Impact Fix" does for any club length on any plane angle.
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Last edited by Daryl : 11-05-2013 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:24 AM
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That means you do not need a lot of shift if your stance is correct and the right forearm is on plane, in contrary to what they said you need a lot of shift and almost all amateur does not have enough shift coming down. (In TGM, rotated shoulder turn also indicated shiftness turn.) Professional players such as Tiger, Nick, etc.. were used to show the ton amount of shift in their downswing before impact.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:08 PM
MizunoJoe MizunoJoe is offline
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I think S&T has morphed away from the Tilt in order to better fit the mainstream, but they cannot get away from the fact that to make it work, you have to stand up through the shot, which violates the most primary fundamental of a good golf stroke - a steady head.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:08 AM
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svsvincenzo svsvincenzo is offline
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Originally Posted by Daryl View Post
It does, but I don't know if you'll understand given my poor description below. It all comes under the heading "Role of the Right Shoulder".

The Right Forearm needs to be On Plane at Impact. Every good Ball-Striker does this instinctively. Each Plane Angle (Shorter Clubs have Steeper Plane Angles) has a Stance Width to keep the Right Shoulder the needed distance from the Ball so that the Right Forearm can be On Plane at Impact by arriving through its Angle of Approach. If the Stance Width is too narrow, then you must either "Tilt" to the Right (Accommodating the Right Forearm Angle of Approach) or add a Swivel through Impact because the Right Forearm is coming in to high.

If you're "Tilting" to the Right, then "Widen" your Stance. By Widening your Stance, you'll no longer need to tilt and you'll stop Tilting.

Some players shift their Hips forward and they learn to Tilt to Improve their Approach Angle. Others simply learn that Tilting to the right lets them approach the ball from a shallower angle and using a narrower Stance makes all things easier.

Either way, these compensations correct a faulty Right Shoulder distance from the Ball which causes a Faulty Approach Angle which is caused by incorrect Stance Width.

Want to prove this? Take a narrow Stance and Play the Ball far forward the left foot way beyond the left shoulder. Hit a few balls but move the ball forward until you no longer tilt backwards while striking the ball. Then move the ball and your right foot back 5" at a time and strike the ball. When the ball and right foot has been moved back a few times and the ball becomes opposite your left shoulder, look how wide your stance has become.

Hint: This is what "Impact Fix" does for any club length on any plane angle.
Great post there...
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:26 AM
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svsvincenzo svsvincenzo is offline
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Originally Posted by MizunoJoe View Post
I think S&T has morphed away from the Tilt in order to better fit the mainstream, but they cannot get away from the fact that to make it work, you have to stand up through the shot, which violates the most primary fundamental of a good golf stroke - a steady head.
Originally Posted by Daryl View Post
The Flat Left Wrist allows the creation of a Primary Lever which can be Hinged (not necessarily) at the Left Shoulder causing the Clubface and Ball to rotate around the Impact Point which causes the Ball to respond to an Angular Force as though it were struck with a Linear Force.

Only TGM teaches the "How" and "Why".

Above is an explanation "Why" you need a Flat Left Wrist. The "How" is a Completely different matter. First, your "Flying Wedges" must be aligned at 90 degrees through the Impact Interval. Don't try to keep a Flat Left Wrist at Impact while swinging at 100 MPH, because you can't. When the "Wedges" are Aligned at 90 degrees through Impact, the Left Wrist will be Flat no matter how hard or soft you Swing.

The "5 Simple Keys" or "S&T" doesn't teach any of this.
Still not quite a clear "how" for me...hehe

How do you keep the wedges at 90 degree alignment?
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by svsvincenzo View Post
Still not quite a clear "how" for me...hehe

How do you keep the wedges at 90 degree alignment?
This is the difference between a good ball striker and a poor ball striker. Wedges at 90 degrees. The Bucket drill teaches 90 degree Wedges. It's easier than the drawing below. Put a Red Dot on the inside of your Right Wrist. Put another Dot on the Outside of your Left Wrist. The Dot on the Left Wrist will Face he Target at Impact. The Dot on the Right Wrist will Face upwards at Impact. If you rotate the Right Wrist to the Left, so that it faces the Target just like the Left Wrist Dot, then your Wedges are Aligned at "0" degrees.

The Swing Plane is a Angled Plane. The Angled Plane is at Right Angles (90 degrees) to the Vertical Plane. The Primary Lever is Aligned to the Vertical Plane (Left Arm, Wrist, Clubface) at Impact. The Right Forearm is aligned to the Swing Plane at Impact and Separation (best if always aligned to the Swing Plane).

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Old 01-01-2014, 02:52 AM
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svsvincenzo svsvincenzo is offline
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Originally Posted by Daryl View Post
This is the difference between a good ball striker and a poor ball striker. Wedges at 90 degrees. The Bucket drill teaches 90 degree Wedges. It's easier than the drawing below. Put a Red Dot on the inside of your Right Wrist. Put another Dot on the Outside of your Left Wrist. The Dot on the Left Wrist will Face he Target at Impact. The Dot on the Right Wrist will Face upwards at Impact. If you rotate the Right Wrist to the Left, so that it faces the Target just like the Left Wrist Dot, then your Wedges are Aligned at "0" degrees.

The Swing Plane is a Angled Plane. The Angled Plane is at Right Angles (90 degrees) to the Vertical Plane. The Primary Lever is Aligned to the Vertical Plane (Left Arm, Wrist, Clubface) at Impact. The Right Forearm is aligned to the Swing Plane at Impact and Separation (best if always aligned to the Swing Plane).

Dot on R wrist facing up at IMPACT? Is that a feel thing coming into Release until Impact, or reality? Seems impossible in reality.
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