I have a number of questions concerning chapter 7-2. Let's start with this one:
Quote:
For Impact Clubface alignment control, Hitters should rotate their Grip but not their Plane Line at Address (3-F-5 and 7-8 ), while Swingers should rotate their Plane Line but not their Grip (7-1 and 6-B-3-0).
In 2-J-1. IMPACT ALIGNMENTS (CLUBFACE POSTITIONING) it says:
Quote:
The Clubface alignment at Impact Fix must fit the selected Hinge Action (7-10 and 10-10). For Horizontal Hinging, it is slightly "Open" at Impact Fix to allow for "Closing" during Impact. The longer the shot, the more "Open."
Does that mean that a Swinger should adjust his clubface to the selected Hinge Action at Address by rotating his Plane Line? And that, for Horizontal Hinging, his Plane Line would have to be more open for longer shots and less open for shorter shots?
The two sections are unrelated - so don't mix them.
Your section 7-2 quote is talking about changing impact alignments to control draw or fades. The term swingers in that quote should read "True Swingers". Doesn't answer your questions but keeps you on the right track.
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The two sections are unrelated - so don't mix them.
Your section 7-2 quote is talking about changing impact alignments to control draw or fades. The term swingers in that quote should read "True Swingers". Doesn't answer your questions but keeps you on the right track.
Does that mean that a Swinger should adjust his clubface to the selected Hinge Action at Address by rotating his Plane Line? And that, for Horizontal Hinging, his Plane Line would have to be more open for longer shots and less open for shorter shots?
Great answer Mike. Par 71, you need to note that HOmer isnt talking about Swingers , generally. He is talking about True Swingers . Those for whom CF alone squares the club face.
Hitters and manipulated Hands Swingers (almost everybody) can make use of Grip Rotation. That is to say for balls played fore or aft of the Straight Away Position, they can rotate the handle in their loosened grip to align the face square to the target line/ plane line (for instance) and then when swinging have the club face return to the ball with the same face angle.
Grip Rotation is not available to the True Swinger , definitionally. A ball played back of straight away will see an open clubface returned to the ball . Pushes and Fades resulting . So under these circumstances if this player , a true swinger wants to re direct the flight of the ball so its not out to the right, he can do so only by rotating his plane .... to the left.
So, re your question above Par 71, Plane LIne Rotation for the True Swinger has more to do with the positioning of the ball than what club is in hand. And while the True Swinger will have a face angle which is open to varying degrees at Fix , to allow for it to be square at separation , this is got via ball positioning through trial and error not plane line rotation.
Re face angle at Fix given a selected Hinge Action and Grip Rotation, here's a mechanical /mental image for the Manipulated Swinger, Hitter golfer playing a ball back in the stance. Imagine the golfer as a machine:
1. You program in a hinge action. Once programmed the Hands always swing through in the same manner. The hands are just clamps etc.
2. Assume you have taken your grip at Fix for a ball played at the straight away position .... You then move the ball back in the stance and with it the left arm and club back .... The club face will now point to the right somewhat! Should point to the right . Your left hand, in fact your entire Primary Lever , left arm and club, has Turned slightly as it moved back in the stance with the ball and in accordance to a Left Hand which remained Vertical (flat level and vertical) to the desired Horizontal Basic Plane given Horizontal Hinging.
3. You then loosen your clamps (hands) and Rotate the Grip ... ie you spin the handle counter clockwise in your loosened grip /clamps to square the face to the desired Fix alignment for straight away initial flight down the (Impact) Plane Line / target line.
What is the desired amount of face squaring? It depends on the club , the ball position etc but the point is that the face must be square to the target line at Separation reasoned Homer not necessarily at Impact. The closing nature of Horizontal requires the face to be open (to varying degrees) at impact fix. Its not separation Fix its Impact Fix after all. Vertical Hinging would have the same as face angle at impact and separation .
Any notes Mike? This stuff sounds horribly complex in words. If we were all standing around in the same grill room with some sticks in front us it'd be way easier to describe.
I know Homer's only referring to the True Swinger in my above quote from 7-2. Should have made that more clear in my question. I am actually thinking about the True Swinger, only. Should he use Grip rotation to get that degree of openness required by the selected Hinge Action and Club length (per 2-J-1)? Isn't that somewhat mixing Grip rotation with Plane Line rotation?
Or should he get the required amount of open Clubface by placing the ball further back? (But with Horizontal Hinging, which per 2-J-1 requires a more open Clubface for the longer clubs, that would mean playing the ball from further back with the longer clubs, which seems counterintuitive, no?)
Asked in a more general way:
Can a player who uses Plane Line rotation to produce fades and draws use Grip rotation to get the Impact alignments prescribed by 2-J-1 for the selected Hinge Action?
And can a Hands Manipulated Swinger still use Plane Line Rotation to play fades and draws?
I know Homer's only referring to the True Swinger in my above quote from 7-2. Should have made that more clear in my question. I am actually thinking about the True Swinger, only. Should he use Grip rotation to get that degree of openness required by the selected Hinge Action and Club length (per 2-J-1)? Isn't that somewhat mixing Grip rotation with Plane Line rotation?
Or should he get the required amount of open Clubface by placing the ball further back? (But with Horizontal Hinging, which per 2-J-1 requires a more open Clubface for the longer clubs, that would mean playing the ball from further back with the longer clubs, which seems counterintuitive, no?)
Asked in a more general way:
Can a player who uses Plane Line rotation to produce fades and draws use Grip rotation to get the Impact alignments prescribed by 2-J-1 for the selected Hinge Action?
And can a Hands Manipulated Swinger still use Plane Line Rotation to play fades and draws?
Throwout Aligns the Clubface for Horizontal Hinging, Closing Only Clubface through the Impact Interval. Longer clubs have longer Impact Intervals, normally, so the ball is moved along a greater distance before Separation. At Separation the Clubface is Aligned to the Target Line. At Impact it's Aligned to the Angle of Approach. That's the Perfect World. Compress, Sustain, Separate.
True Swingers always have the Clubface Aligned to the Target Line at Separation.
Hands Manipulated Swingers and Hitters always have the Clubface Aligned to the Angle of Approach at Impact.
1 Throwout Aligns the Clubface for Horizontal Hinging, Closing Only Clubface through the Impact Interval. Longer clubs have longer Impact Intervals, normally, so the ball is moved along a greater distance before Separation. At Separation the Clubface is Aligned to the Target Line. At Impact it's Aligned to the Angle of Approach. That's the Perfect World. Compress, Sustain, Separate.
2 true Swingers always have the Clubface Aligned to the Target Line at Separation.
Hands Manipulated Swingers and Hitters always have the Clubface Aligned to the Angle of Approach at Impact.
1 length of club or club head speed? I hold with speed??
2 Arn't these just the ends of the impact interval and apply to either?
I know Homer's only referring to the True Swinger in my above quote from 7-2. Should have made that more clear in my question. I am actually thinking about the True Swinger, only. Should he use Grip rotation to get that degree of openness required by the selected Hinge Action and Club length (per 2-J-1)? Isn't that somewhat mixing Grip rotation with Plane Line rotation?
By definition the True Swinger uses , no I cant say uses .... sees cf ALONE square the club face. ie he has no control over the club face. Grip Rotation is therefor not available to him.
Quote:
Or should he get the required amount of open Clubface by placing the ball further back? (But with Horizontal Hinging, which per 2-J-1 requires a more open Clubface for the longer clubs, that would mean playing the ball from further back with the longer clubs, which seems counterintuitive, no?)
Each club given built in hook face has its own unique straight away ball position. This is found through trial and error and takes into account the degree of clubface openness required for straight away initial ball flight. IMO.
Quote:
Can a player who uses Plane Line rotation to produce fades and draws use Grip rotation to get the Impact alignments prescribed by 2-J-1 for the selected Hinge Action?
Yes. But only a manipulated Hands Swinger or Hitter would be able to do this.
Quote:
And can a Hands Manipulated Swinger still use Plane Line Rotation to play fades and draws?
Yes absolutely.
Short version maybe this will be more clear: When you read 7-2 you have to understand that regardless of whether you are a True Swinger or Manipulated hands swinger or hitter the ball flight laws are the same. Divergence between clubhead path and club face angle creates curved flight . The true swinger can manipulate the path only . The manipualted hands swinger or hitter can manipulate the path and / or the face. Said another way in Homer speak , the manipulated Hands Swinger can manipulate the club HEAD and the club FACE. The True Swinger has no manual control over the club FACE. He sees the clubface come back to a ball played aft in the stance in a more open condition than does the manipulated hands swinger or hitter who employed Grip Rotation.
So the ball reaction for balls played back in the stance are different yes (given the implication to face angle inherent in Homers definitions of true vs manipulated swinging ) ..... but the ball flight laws are universal . No one can over ride the physics in play. Path vs Face equals divergence etc.
By definition the True Swinger uses , no I cant say uses .... sees cf ALONE square the club face. ie he has no control over the club face. Grip Rotation is therefor not available to him.
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If I were to say cf squares the flat left hand
not the clubface what would U answer?
If I were to say cf squares the flat left hand
not the clubface what would U answer?
HB
Me personally or Homer?
I know you have issues with cf /clubface . Fine by me. I have some too frankly. Should we address the theoretical, intellectual here or just try to understand what the heck Homer was talking about in 7-2?
Maybe your points are best left for a discussion in the lab. YOu know, get the white coats on.
To answer your question. Homer said in the audio tapes the true swingers clubface stayed aligned, square to his left hand , his primary lever throughout the swing. He thought that Horizontal was a natural by product of true swinging . But he attributed it to cfs effect on the clubface not the left hand.
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