As a right arm swinger (or switter perhaps ) I have routinely been using RFT.
Recently however I discovered that a left arm(side) takeaway resulted in
i/ Easier to keep the left arm straight in the backswing
ii/A completely relaxed right arm(side)
iii/Right arm-elbow nicely folding in in optimal position
iiii/Consistently higher natural draw shots with a longer carry
I would greatly appreciate comments from the expertise here on the issue
Pushing the club back in Startup with the Left Arm or Shoulder tends towards:
-Angled Hinging , with the club face "looking at the ball" some what , so to speak. Instead of a proper Horizontal Hinging type takeaway assuming you're Swinging with Horizontal Hinging.
-Lifting . The left arm being less than ideally situated on the other side of the body from where the Hands and Club are for the most part raised makes it very weak . Trying doing your left arm Takeaway with just your left arm attached to the club.....it struggles to get the hands and club Up to Top. Which normally results in the shoulders and left arm "lifting" the hands up. The Right arm being situated directly under the area in the swing where the club and hands are raised Up Plane can get it done with very little effort. Again try this with just the right arm attached. Its easy right? Less heavy lifting more swinging.
- The push back can negate a lagging takeaway. A very nice component for the Swinger as it establishes Lag and Drag very early in the swing, gets you "swinging" early so to speak.
-the introduction of the Shoulders as boss. The Shoulder Turn Takeaway , Pivot to Hands. Under plane backswing.
Having said this there are many players on tv employing a Shoulder Turn takeaway. So if it works for you , go for it! If it stops working then consider reading the following.
Hey sorry about the shoulder turn push away breakdown . I suspect your original problem was related to how you RFT'd rather than that RFT didn't work for you generally speaking. I personally have really benefited from getting rid of any trace of push away .
Hogan, Snead, Nelson , Jones all showed a Lagging takeaway. Despite this there came a time when the left sided push away or Shoulder Turn takeaway became standard instruction. At the extreme (Dick Altman , Square to Square) it went something like this: Left Arm/Shoulder push away , keep the club looking at the ball , take the club straight back on a line from the ball ....... STEERING on the backswing so to speak . It required a lot of lifting , tended towards very high hands.
As an aside , Homer termed this the Turning Shoulder Plane. The plane constantly shifting up up up and then down down down to the elbow plane. All resulting from a desire to take the club straight back with a square face he reasoned. Im told JIm Furyks dad used to put a ruler behind his ball for him to cover on the backswing . Homer would raise an eye brow to that revelation I bet.
In contrast Homer reasoned that the golf club head travelled in a circular orbit , not a perfect circle due to the moving centre and shortening radius but an ellipse which put its geometry under the geometry of the circle . Ellipses being derived from circles. As such there are no straight lines in the path of the club head, no "flat spots". No need to take the club head straight back. The club head travels an Arc as it approaches the ball or in startup. The turning of the body , golfs basic rotational movement being the main contributor to the "stone on a string" circular like physics, what Homer referred to as CF (rightly or wrongly.) The wrecking ball.
So logically , the swinger who wishes to approach a purer form of "swinging", a Bobby Jones like free wheeling say , needs to get his Pivot more involved ABOLUTELY ........ earlier to set up the "swing away", lagging takeaway. YES. But the pivot isn't particularly well suited to lifting the club UP in the backswing either (like the left arm) ...it tends towards under Plane motion. So we have a problem. A problem some teachers have tried to resolve by getting the plane of the shoulders more aligned to the Inclined Plane. Which isn't necessary in my opinion, respectfully. The solution to Homers mind was the introduction of the Right Forearm (elbow) Pick UP. Just a tad of Right Elbow bending pick up , a drinking beer like motion added to the rotationally powered backswing. Enough to get the club swinging UP the Inclined Plane. It takes the pivots swinging motion and redirects it up plane.
Instead of aligning the plane of the shoulders to the plane Homer introduced a second motion with a second directional vector....It sounds complicated but its exactly how we move around , grab things in every day life. Its what we do all day and we don't even think about it or realize we do it!
Two Vectors of motion. The pivot turning around, the right forearm lifts up. Or more correctly; the Pivot provides the IN and some of the BACK , the Right Arm elbow provides the UP. BACK, IN and UP being the three dimensions of a circular , planar takeaway. No straight line club head paths. The face describing the Hinge Action desired through Left Hand control.
In this way in Startup, the Right Shoulder can , may describe a relatively Flat Path back to the Inclined Plane (thereby limiting the amount of Plane Shift) while the Hands go up the Inclined Plane. Two separate paths which intersect , meet up on the Turned Shoulder Plane. From which the Hands and Right Shoulder share a brief ride down plane together. The hands getting a free ride from the Right Shoulder . Ensuring proper Downswing Sequencing. Its brilliant! Its a little weird! Its what we do when throwing a ball overhanded .. why its natural!
The RFT does not imply that the Pivot is dead during Startup!!!!!!!!!! Id say its still the main source of power, for me it moves early, gets the club head moving its first few inches. When does the RFT pickup? Anywhere between right away and slightly after right away. Its a fanning and bending motion. I find ideally done with the #1 pressure point, the same pressure point used to exert Extensor Action. OH by the way your stiff left arm can be considered another form of Extensor Action ....its not a deal breaker to my mind.
Shoulder turn takeaways have won a lot of majors so they can't be all bad but this was Homers logic on the subject given his quest for the uncompensated swing. Makes sense to me. Assuming I have it right. Which is a big assumption.
My problem, however, with the RFT, as I now retrospectively see was that it created tensions in the same right side that I employ for swinging, thereby reducing swing speed and sometimes resulting in round housing.
With the new left sided takeaway, (low and slow ) I feel completely relaxed in the right side at the top and in the start of the downswing.
But my better ball striking with the new takeaway may of course partly be a placebo effect resulting from the positive psychology of something completely new.
My problem, however, with the RFT, as I now retrospectively see was that it created tensions in the same right side that I employ for swinging, thereby reducing swing speed and sometimes resulting in round housing.
With the new left sided takeaway, (low and slow ) I feel completely relaxed in the right side at the top and in the start of the downswing.
But my better ball striking with the new takeaway may of course partly be a placebo effect resulting from the positive psychology of something completely new.
MASTERFUL reply from Mr. OB, as always!
May I add one thought to your particular predicament from my simple mind?
What if your back stroke is POWERED by your left arm, but the ALIGNMENTS are MANAGED by the right elbow and forearm? Get the difference? Personally, I can't imagine teaching a backstroke that isn't aligned via the RFT, but lots of ways to skin a cat!
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
A careful read will clear up several major misconceptions (not the least of which is that the Pivot is inactive during Start Up when using the Right Forearm Takeaway).
Lynn , you have , in my opinion, as good a Startup as anyone in golf, past or present. Someday Im going to crack its code, dang nabit. Someday. I have this feeling that you " dug it out of the dirt".
Lag and Drag. Casper, Melhourne , Homer, McDonald, Bertholy , Nelson , Hogan... Im digging hard.
May I add one thought to your particular predicament from my simple mind?
[S]What if your back stroke is POWERED by your left arm, but the ALIGNMENTS are MANAGED by the right elbow and forearm? Get the difference? Personally, I can't imagine teaching a backstroke that isn't aligned via the RFT, but lots of ways to skin a cat![/S]
Kevin
I'm thinking this was a really boneheaded post. Gotta stick with what I'm being taught and not make up junkie stuff on the fly.
RFT, stick with it!
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
May I add one thought to your particular predicament from my simple mind?
What if your back stroke is POWERED by your left arm, but the ALIGNMENTS are MANAGED by the right elbow and forearm? Get the difference? Personally, I can't imagine teaching a backstroke that isn't aligned via the RFT, but lots of ways to skin a cat!
Kevin
Kev theres a lot of way to get it done. Use what ever works for you. Left Side push away or whatever. One of my faves the Mechanic is Shoulder Turn Takeaway , Pivot to Hands, heck pivot to pony tail even and always with the awesome shoes. Geez Bobby Clampet had a shoulder turn takeaway, pivot to hands and afro . What a swing though on that guy.... man.
But if you want to try it Homer style ......the left arm is inert . Meaning it doesn't power itself either on the backswing or the downswing for fuller shots. The exception being the Pull Minor Basic Stroke , #4 accumulator only ...the left arm pull putting or short chipping stroke where the pivot #1 , the #3 Angle and the #2 left wrist cock are zeroed . Once the Pivot gets involved the left arm moves but not of its own muscular power. Its motivated either by the RFT (for me from the #1pp the same one I use for EA) or the left shoulder's motion (which is really a product of some Right Shoulder work for me anyways).
A total shocker for guys who learned the game back in the dark ages of golf instruction.....the 70's. Back then there was maybe one guy who used an RFT that I can think of anyways or mentioned it in a book. He "dug it out of sand" on the beach in Paderno .....self taught but masterful Seve Ballesteros.
The tell tale sign of a push away is often Angled Hinging on the takeaway. Was for me anyways.
Hey Kev when you do the Melhourne continuous hitting and walking along a line of balls drill do you feel your left arm push away subside to some degree? I do and try to get that feel into my swing, my swing away. Still a work in progress. The darn seventies are hard to shake man.
Kev theres a lot of way to get it done. Use what ever works for you. Left Side push away or whatever. One of my faves the Mechanic is Shoulder Turn Takeaway , Pivot to Hands, heck pivot to pony tail even and always with the awesome shoes. Geez Bobby Clampet had a shoulder turn takeaway, pivot to hands and afro . What a swing though on that guy.... man.
But if you want to try it Homer style ......the left arm is inert . Meaning it doesn't power itself either on the backswing or the downswing for fuller shots. The exception being the Pull Minor Basic Stroke , #4 accumulator only ...the left arm pull putting or short chipping stroke where the pivot #1 , the #3 Angle and the #2 left wrist cock are zeroed . Once the Pivot gets involved the left arm moves but not of its own muscular power. Its motivated either by the RFT (for me from the #1pp the same one I use for EA) or the left shoulder's motion (which is really a product of some Right Shoulder work for me anyways).
A total shocker for guys who learned the game back in the dark ages of golf instruction.....the 70's. Back then there was maybe one guy who used an RFT that I can think of anyways or mentioned it in a book. He "dug it out of sand" on the beach in Paderno .....self taught but masterful Seve Ballesteros.
The tell tale sign of a push away is often Angled Hinging on the takeaway. Was for me anyways.
Hey Kev when you do the Melhourne continuous hitting and walking along a line of balls drill do you feel your left arm push away subside to some degree? I do and try to get that feel into my swing, my swing away. Still a work in progress. The darn seventies are hard to shake man.
Thanks for reinforcing my boneheadedness. See my later post on this. I want to teach as Homer Kelley would wish, I need to not fly by the seat of my pants with bad information. It's all in the book, I just need to work at it!
OB, I couldn't do the Melhorn drill without having a heart attack. I'm working on that, with Yoda's help and ideas. The PRIMAL BLUEPRINT. I've played like 5 rounds total the past 5 years. 2012 will be the return of Kevin, no tournaments, I just want to be able to play with my friends. I'll report on my Melhorn drill feels in the Spring.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
) I have routinely been using RFT.
Hybrid Mode
