2-C-4-A Putter Impact Action - LynnBlakeGolf Forums

2-C-4-A Putter Impact Action

The Other Game - Putting

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Old 11-23-2011, 03:45 PM
Par71 Par71 is offline
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2-C-4-A Putter Impact Action
I find it difficult to understand the drawings in chapter 2-C-4-A.

That's a reverse loft putter making impact on center, above center, and below center, respectively, right? The on center impact is said to produce no spin, the above center impact overspin, and the below center impact backspin.

Why did Homer choose a reverse loft putter for this drawing although it is almost impossible to find any reverse loft putters on the market?

For a regular (positive loft) putter to make above center impact like the one shown in the middle picture, should the putter shaft lean forward (to compensate for the positive putter loft)? Would that require that the ball be placed further back in the stance?

The bottom picture shows an impact below center with a backwards leaning shaft. So impact in the bottom picture must be past low point when the putter head is already rising again. Why would that not produce overspin?
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Old 11-25-2011, 10:55 PM
whip whip is offline
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Putter ? Tee it up !
It is always important to keep in mind Homer’s caveat for understanding the pictures in section 2-R. 

...“The picture presents the subject only as noted in the written discussion and is not intended as a reference regarding any of the other aspects or subjects which the picture may include incidentally.

”

In 2-C-4 he writes, “Linear Force-Putter Impact Action. Showing Vertical (only) Hinge Action(10-10). Inconsistent Hand to-Ball positioning will vary the LOC location and the ball travel. Study 2-E”


There is no mention of a reverse loft putter in the above text. Why he chose a reverse loft putter or why there are none on the market are incidental to understanding the drawing.



You say: “For a regular (positive loft) putter to make above center impact like the one shown in the middle picture, should the putter shaft lean forward (to compensate for the positive putter loft)? Would that require that the ball be placed further back in the stance?”



Impacting the ball above center in relation to the loft and height of the putter face can be influenced by hand to ball positioning in relation to low point. However you can impact the ball above center with any loft and any ball position and any amount of forward or backward shaft lean. Regardless of that, the point of the picture is to simply show you that INCONSISTENT HAND TO BALL POSITIONING WILL GIVE YOU INCONSISTENT LOC IMPACTS (varying spin).

You say: “The bottom picture shows an impact below center with a backwards leaning shaft. So impact in the bottom picture must be past low point when the putter head is already rising again.”



You are mistaken in assuming that because the shaft is leaning backwards that it is depicting an impact past low point. An impact past low point, with the exception of some lowering manipulation of the clubhead, will give you a rising clubhead (in the air). As you can see the picture is depicting a below center impact as you stated. In order to get an impact past low point with a below center impact the ball would have to be on a tee!

Last edited by whip : 11-26-2011 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 11-25-2011, 11:25 PM
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Yoda Yoda is offline
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Ball Spin and Putting
Originally Posted by Par71 View Post
I find it difficult to understand the drawings in chapter 2-C-4-A.

That's a reverse loft putter making impact on center, above center, and below center, respectively, right? The on center impact is said to produce no spin, the above center impact overspin, and the below center impact backspin.

Why did Homer choose a reverse loft putter for this drawing although it is almost impossible to find any reverse loft putters on the market?

For a regular (positive loft) putter to make above center impact like the one shown in the middle picture, should the putter shaft lean forward (to compensate for the positive putter loft)? Would that require that the ball be placed further back in the stance?

The bottom picture shows an impact below center with a backwards leaning shaft. So impact in the bottom picture must be past low point when the putter head is already rising again. Why would that not produce overspin?
Par71, taking your questions in the order asked:

1. Why did Homer choose a reverse loft putter for this drawing although it is almost impossible to find any reverse loft putters on the market?

ln the Ideal Application (Horizontal Hinge Action / 2-C-1), Impact is illustrated at Low Point. In this theoretical application, the golfer's left wrist becomes Flat and Vertical at Low Point. In actual practice, it normally becomes Flat and Vertical at an Impact somewhat prior to Low Point (7-10).

In Sketch 2-C-4-A, Homer is illustrating three different Impact Hand Locations and their subsequent effects on the Line of Compression. As you have noted, he is also illustrating a reverse loft putter, but that is only incidental; it is not the primary point.

To your question though, there is a definite reason why he said elsewhere (6-B-3-0) that Swingers can use such a putter to produce Overspin. Indeed, true Swingers must use a reverse loft putter. That's because, in a true Swing procedure, Centrifugal Force -- and not the golfer! -- aligns the Clubface for Impact. In so doing, it preserves the built-in Loft of the Club.

Assuming a geometrically-correct Impact, a club with loft can only strike below the equator of the ball. This will produce Backspin. Similarly, a club with zero loft can only strike the ball on its equator. This will produce No Spin (or 'skid'). Only with a reverse loft putter can the Clubface strike the ball above the equator. This -- and only this -- will produce Overspin.

Of course, Hitters and Manipulated Hands Swingers do not rely on Centrifugal Force to align the Clubface. Thus, they are able to produce a 'negative' effective loft via a more forward Hand Location at Impact, thus rendering a negative loft putter unnecessary.

2. For a regular (positive loft) putter to make above center impact like the one shown in the middle picture, should the putter shaft lean forward (to compensate for the positive putter loft)?

Yes. See my last two sentences above.

3.Would that require that the ball be placed further back in the stance?

No, but it would help.

4. The bottom picture shows an impact below center with a backwards leaning shaft. So impact in the bottom picture must be past low point when the putter head is already rising again. Why would that not produce overspin?

This diagram illustrates the common misconception you have stated; namely, that "hitting up" will produce Overspin (2-J-2). Impact below center will always produce Backspin. Again, only when Impact is above the ball's center can there be a true Overspin.
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:06 AM
JTillery JTillery is offline
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Par71: You want "rise" to be more than dynamic loft. Always. So where you contact the ball can be up to you, depends on ur ball position, impact alignments and loft/ putter design. In a redneck world (where I reside), the more loft, the more you need to hit up on it with some lean.

Last edited by JTillery : 11-26-2011 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:53 AM
whip whip is offline
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for reals...
my next putter....

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Old 11-26-2011, 10:35 AM
JTillery JTillery is offline
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Originally Posted by whip View Post
my next putter....

haters gonna hate. http://www.clker.com/clipart-96005.html
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Don't JUST "lean it", BEND IT!!
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:23 PM
whip whip is offline
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the tall big face, reverse loft of the garden hoe, and long length make it a great putter with some modifications. the problem with putters if were looking for overspin is the face isn't tall enough. In 2c4 the putter is as tall as the ball. if you had a face that was about twice the height of a normal putter face with a small amount of reverse loft, it would make hitting the ball above center a breeze...

Last edited by whip : 11-26-2011 at 02:22 PM.
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