Some of the teaching pros here are using a drill
with the club across the back or across the chest
and pivoting around the the spine to take the club
to the top. The say that the drill teaches ths student
to maintain the bent over spine angel. I mentioned that
the drill puts the right shouder high and the left shoulder
low at the top of the backswing. They say that if they
try to go to level right shoulder that the student will
loose the forward spine angle. What do you think?
Their drill sounds very Pivot to Hands ish to me. Do they describe the club across the chest as moving at 90 degrees to the spine angle, but with a forward waist bend? I used to think along these lines. The answer is multi faceted I believe, touching on some of Homers greatest stuff Id say.
I believe that Yoda's "flat" right shoulder move in the takeaway is really only as flat as is possible for the individual, given a steady pivot center, as opposed to literally level to the ground thing. It's an attempt to the get the Right Shoulder back onto the (zero shift) Inclined Plane. A flat (ish) turn of the Right Shoulder will locate this Inclined Plane with less travel if you imagine it from a "down the line" perspective. In reality Yoda's procedure isnt really very flat in terms of the shoulder turn or plane angle. It doesnt look unusual at all to my eye.
If you cant locate the Inclined Plane with the Right Shoulder the plane angle rises to it , so to speak. Assuming a TSP. But incrementally , to the least amount of angle shift necessary. Minimizing the shift. Which is in contrast to the shift resulting from a turn of the Right Shoulder at 90 degrees to the Spine type deal. Typically a much bigger shift in terms of degrees.
Some of the guys reco'ing the steep shoulder turns have their arms tied to their bodies. In my opinion , given Homer's independent Arm and Pivot/Shoulder motion (something we do during normal human movement all the time) the Hands go where they must go and the Shoulders accommodate naturally, perfectly and usually by traveling a unique path of their own. With the Arms tied to the Pivot in some manner , hankies say or imaginary ones, the Shoulders and the Arms need to work as unit........ point at the plane line together at Top perhaps? In the extreme. But why bother with such an awkward procedure? You dont point your shoulders at the dish on the top shelf in your kitchen .....you just send your hand towards its target and the pivot/shoulders do their own thing. Hands to Pivot not Pivot to Hands.
The other thing is that there is a good deal of play in the Shoulders. In fact the spine isnt really a rigid straight line either, its "s" shaped and articulates. It is not a rigid "T" arrangement, far from it.
I know this is highly contentious stuff ........ I used to think along their lines myself. But these days I just clear my Right HIp and Right Forearm Takeaway (Fanning and Bending). No thought to turning my Shoulders really. That and a little EA is all there is to my my Startup these days. It feels like two moves and the rest is automated. Im not going back to the Shoulder Turn Takeaway any time soon.
In Startdown I do drive my Right Shoulder at the Plane Line ...........and with it, the similarly planed Hands... meaning from a TSP angle at Top. As required by the ground/up Downswing Acceleration Sequence. Is this Pivot to Hands? Id say no! The Hands are still directing while catching a brief free ride from the Right Shoulder down the Plane.
Uh, its a big topic. I guess I could have just said ........"you can approach level without losing your forward tilt" . But I sense there is much more at hand than merely that.
Thank you very much for your thoughts and insite.
You must have spent considerable time working on
the reply. I certainly agree with what you said.
You put things in prospective. I see a lot of drills
that seem to be passed on from teacher to teacher that
seem to address the current fad for what is hot at the
time. I have currently seen three instructors using it.
One particular student is using the drill to try and
correct the flaw on hitting on the toe of the clubface.
The student uses a shoulder takeaway, and more of a
rotated shoulder turn. The guy hits the ball over 300
yards even with toe hits, but is a mess at the top.
He regularly shoots in the 60s and has won three mini
tour events, but wants to cure the toe shots. I personnaly
think that the drill is hurting him, but he has a lot of
faith in the instructor who teaches what is hot on tour?
Thank again for your response. Donn
O.B., your response here is extremely helpful.
I have found, as I believe you and Yoda have stated repeatedly, that just putting my hands where I want them, everything else seems to fall into place. The hard part is to remember to do it all the time and not lead with the chest or shoulders. If the hands are placed in the desired location all else seems to follow accordingly.
Thanks again.
Last edited by JerryG : 05-30-2011 at 12:04 PM.
Reason: misspelling
Thank you very much for your thoughts and insite.
You must have spent considerable time working on
the reply. I certainly agree with what you said.
You put things in prospective. I see a lot of drills
that seem to be passed on from teacher to teacher that
seem to address the current fad for what is hot at the
time. I have currently seen three instructors using it.
One particular student is using the drill to try and
correct the flaw on hitting on the toe of the clubface.
The student uses a shoulder takeaway, and more of a
rotated shoulder turn. The guy hits the ball over 300
yards even with toe hits, but is a mess at the top.
He regularly shoots in the 60s and has won three mini
tour events, but wants to cure the toe shots. I personnaly
think that the drill is hurting him, but he has a lot of
faith in the instructor who teaches what is hot on tour?
Thank again for your response. Donn
That man you mention can play, no doubt about it. Hands to Pivot isnt the only way. I personally believe its the best way but without doubt there are guys on tour , lots of them in fact, who are PIvot to Hands. Like the knee drive of the 70's its not enough to preclude excellence but .....its not necessary or I believe advisable. Id say it has to be compensated for actually.
Homer was largely misunderstood on the Hands to Pivot concept.
I know, what else is new?
P.S. JerryG doesnt misspelling have three s's? Not sur. Thanks bro.
P.S. JerryG doesnt misspelling have three s's? Not sur. Thanks bro.
Sorry O.B. I must have been thinking of my 3rd grade teacher, Miss Pelling.[/quote]
Da Utes of Amerika are endangered!
Seriously, though, OB and Gerry's comments have become very important for me after having Lynn demonstrate the concepts and I am hitting the ball much more consistently.
Hula Left gets the back Shoulder and Hip well back. Mid body Hands and proper grip. Slight Impact Fix determined only by the Hula left. RFT keeping elbow close and elbow leading down on plane and then I Drag or Drive the Elbow. Lynn's putting lessons also helped me to 12 over 83 including one birdie.
I won some dollars for the new " LBG Fun and Frolic Fund!" Woo hooo!
IC T
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Hybrid Mode
