The Tomasello Tapes -- Chapter Nine / Swinging Vs. Hitting
In this final segment of the Series, Tom Tomasello explains and demonstrates the Swinging and Hitting Strokes as he saw them. LBG disagrees with much of what is presented, especially with regards to the Hitting Stroke. Our concerns revolve primarily around teaching Hitting as a Closed Clubface, Punching Procedure that delofts the Club and produces only Low Fades (although in his first explanation, Tommy characterizes the Hit as producing high Fades).
Unfortunately, Tom is not here to answer our questions or to explain his concepts further, Nevertheless, I encourage viewers to think critically and to post their comments and questions. In this manner, the segment's inconsistencies with Hitting as explained in and supported by The Golfing Machine will come to light and be resolved.
Wow! This clip is going to generate posts for the next year. I'm a newbie at all of this , but my first impressions after 1 viewing:
1. He really seems to have a bias towards swinging. Even his slow-motion drills all involve a swinging procedure, not hitting.
2. Refers to hitting as "punch shots" all the time. I just learned hitting from Yoda, and I'm not sure the beautiful straight to slight fades I hit 260 yards with my driver 2 days ago were "punch shots." I wonder if he was trained to "hit" short shots and "swing" long shots?? Was that the training of TGM back then?
3. He also implies that hitting is OK for the "young" and "strong", and states Arnold Palmer's loss of distance was due to staying with a "hitting" procedure. As Yoda can attest, I'm not young (53) and have average strength---but my distance for ALL clubs has increased in the past month.
4. As for the "closed clubface" takeaway, it reminds me of Brian Manzella's twistaway move that he mentions in his Never Slice Again video. That is not what I was taught with the right forearm pickup. It doesn't even feel shut to me. If you take it back shut wouldn't you have to manipulate something on the downswing to keep from smother hooking it??
Anyway, those are the random thoughts of a new guy after 1 viewing. It may generate some controversy, but REALLY glad you put it up Lynn.
Later kids. Bedtime for the old guy---0500 hrs gets here in a hurry at this age. Dr Dave
And one more thing: It is impossible to reconcile the "one Club shorter" message with the recent posts from Ted "Luke the Nuke" Fort and tonight's post by Bagger Lance. Or from Homer Kelley's taped 1982 discussion of two sets of Stroke Sequences in The Search For The Perfect Swing.
Comparing two side-by-side subjects, Homer was able to discern Hitter from Swinger from the slowdown of the Hands in Release. Despite the Release Deceleration inherent in the Hitting procedure (due to the forfeiture of Body Momentum Transfer), the Hitter's Clubhead Speed was still greater than that of the Swinger. He was quick to point out that Hitters do not necessarily hit the Ball further than Swingers. Nevertheless, in this particular instance, that was indeed the case.
Bottom Line: Hitting does not inherently produce a lower Clubhead Speed than Swinging.
I noticed the "10 yard/1 club distance loss" comment as well. Isn't hitting going to produce slightly less distance not because of clubhead speed factors but instead due to hinge action?
Angled hinging has layback and closing, which will mean the clubhead has more loft during the impact interval than horizontal hinging. In addition, there is some 'compression leakage' due to the uncentered motion that angled hinging produces.
You can totally see in this video where Croker got his ideas. Interestingly enough, Croker says to hit but he uses TT's swinging procedure to accomplish this. Maybe his method is a switter method. I really enjoyed this video because Tom makes the swing seem so simple and his enthusiam for golf is infectious. Like I said in the past, I use this method (more Croker) and it works very well for me. It is great to see the source of the ideas. One question, is TT using or trying to demonstate a full sweep release? Thanks
Matt,
You're right about the compression leakage for angled hinging - it's a factor. In contrast, the hitter has the advantage of a prestressed clubshaft (resistance to impact deceleration), which the swinger does not have, and so on, and so on, back and forth- pros and cons......
Homer felt that whether hitting or swinging - distance wise they were going to be pretty similar.
I believe what's going to come out of this is....everyone's going to learn a little more about hitting.....the differences between 3 and 4 barrel hitting that is the real issue. More FOG LIFTING.......this is definitely not an issue of who's right or wrong....it's about differences....apples and oranges....read the 6th habit of "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.....page 277....hard cover edition.....
DG
I believe you are right DG. And thanks once again for sharing the video. Your original is on it's way home. Let me know if you want my edited version on DVD. I have just one copy...for you.
And one more thing: It is impossible to reconcile the "one Club shorter" message with the recent posts from Ted "Luke the Nuke" Fort and tonight's post by Bagger Lance. Or from Homer Kelley's taped 1982 discussion of two sets of Stroke Sequences in The Search For The Perfect Swing.
Comparing two side-by-side subjects, Homer was able to discern Hitter from Swinger from the slowdown of the Hands in Release. Despite the Release Deceleration inherent in the Hitting procedure (due to the forfeiture of Body Momentum Transfer), the Hitter's Clubhead Speed was still greater than that of the Swinger. He was quick to point out that Hitters do not necessarily hit the Ball further than Swingers. Nevertheless, in this particular instance, that was indeed the case.
Bottom Line: Hitting does not inherently produce a lower Clubhead Speed than Swinging.
In this instance we are comparing a swinging procedure utilizing right arm acceleration to a hitting procedure that is using right arm acceleration (less momentum transfer for both procedures)....one stroke is longer than the other per component 21.....one is using horizontal hinging and one is using angled hinging.....one is using a pitch basic stroke and other a punch basic stroke....one is using standard wrist action and the other is using single wrist action...could there a be a distance difference with that many component changes??? Most of the changes impacting the arms lane!!!
DG
I think Mr. Tomasello was saying that right-armed swinging is longer than hitting. I'm not sure how this could ever be proven.
We would have to take the same golfer and make all variables equal in his hitting vs right-armed swinging motion. If we made all variables equal - clubhead speed, compression, effective mass, etc, etc, then both shots would go the same distance regardless of how the club was brought to the ball.
It could be that Mr. Tomasello didn't have the strength to hit as far as he could swing? I'm sure what he is reporting is what he experienced with both strokes.
I don't understand the science enough to say one procedure is longer than the other. But I have seen hitters who are longer when hitting than they are when swinging and vice versa. Based on what I've seen in others and experienced with my own stroke, I would never be able to say one procedure is inherently longer than the other.
I understand what you mean by using extensor action. What about the part of the video when TT talks about the uncocking of the left wrist? That seems like it would be a sweep release. I am unclear on this- I have done this in the past and did not have good results. Is TT advocating trying to uncock the left wrist? Thanks
That is interesting- Croker seems to give TT credit for his ideas, but maybe it is the other way around. They are very similar except that Croker teaches to throw the club at the ball making sure you uncock the left wrist under to ensure that you do not come over the top. TT's idea of trying to unbend the right wrist and hit out at the ball is somewhat similar. Interesting that TT did not talk more about lag. Croker thinks lag is still there when you throw the clubhead at the ball, but if you uncock the wrist wrong, you lose the lag. Thanks again for the awesome vids!
Hybrid Mode
