I started this thread for Two reasons. To not hijack another thread and to discus Ben Doyles presentation and content of the 24 TGM Components.
I know that a lot of members have this tape or DVD. Please join the discussion or share your views on how this presentaion has helped your understanding of TGM.
Originally Posted by O.B.Left
D, does Ben Doyle ever teach or demonstrate Hitting? How bout a Non Automatic Release Trigger when Swinging?
And if you dont mind, this Random Sweep Releaser wants to know how he teaches the delayed Release. Is it just Drag Loading the Handle past the eye line to the ball with the Left Hand turned to plane?
Thanks man.
First, let me say how excited I am to review his Video Tape on the 24 Components.
His presentation has a mixture of "How to" and "Explanation/Description/Demonstration" of the 24 Components.
In addition to the many tidbits of valuable insight I'm gaining; I've come across a Startling observation. Ben doesn't seem to care about Hitting and Swinging in the sense that there needs to be, or should be, a definite distinction between the two.
He certainly has complete command of "Drive, Float and Drag" Accumulator Loading, yet the ONLY distinction he makes between Hitting and Swinging is use of the #4 vs. #1 Accumulator. Let me make this perfectly Clear with the following analysis.
Ben's Standard Chipping Procedure is Drive Loading although he doesn't say if he loads the Primary or Secondary Lever. But Given Ben's knowledge, let's assume that he Loads the Primary Lever and uses Single Wrist Action. Then he Explains that Hip Action Drives His Right Forearm to Release the Club. In another area of the Tape, he claims Hip Action is a Backstop for His Driving Right Forearm. My conclusion, is that Ben indiscriminately uses the Term "Hip Action" to either Throw-out the Secondary Lever for Swinging or Dive the Right Elbow into a Straight Arm for Hitting.
HMM? The Problem with that, as we know, is that Hip Action Powers the Shoulder Turn which Throws (Releases) the #4 Accumulator. So, therefore, he decides that he's Hitting or Swinging, depending on if he "Feels" that Hip Action Drives the Right Forearm or Releases the Left Arm, inconsequential of other components. I'll need to review the Tape a few more times.
Ben's Standard Procedures are:
Chips: Drive Load
Pitches: Float Load
Full Swing: Drag Load
O.B., I'll need more review time to get back to you on you last question.
Ben's Standard Chipping Procedure is Drive Loading although he doesn't say if he loads the Primary or Secondary Lever. But Given Ben's knowledge, let's assume that he Loads the Primary Lever and uses Single Wrist Action. Then he Explains that Hip Action Drives His Right Forearm to Release the Club. In another area of the Tape, he claims Hip Action is a Backstop for His Driving Right Forearm. My conclusion, is that Ben indiscriminately uses the Term "Hip Action" to either Throw-out the Secondary Lever for Swinging or Dive the Right Elbow into a Straight Arm for Hitting.
HMM? The Problem with that, as we know, is that Hip Action Powers the Shoulder Turn which Throws (Releases) the #4 Accumulator. So, therefore, he decides that he's Hitting or Swinging, depending on if he "Feels" that Hip Action Drives the Right Forearm or Releases the Left Arm, inconsequential of other components. I'll need to review the Tape a few more times.
O.B., I'll need more review time to get back to you on you last question.
Thats an interesting procedure for chipping. Its not in accordance with 12-5-0 The Basic Motion Curriculum, but not totally uncommon, I guess for longer chips or short pitches. It bypasses Homers Zone 2 only power and goes to a two Zone (1 and 2) chipping procedure. On t.v. I see guys with some Pivot Motion for sure on long chips but Im not sure if Id call it Pivot work. Like Steve Stricker below.
12-5-1 Basic Motion "..........Zero out the Pivot, Shoulder Turn and Accumulator #3"
12-5-2 Acquired Motion ".......Zero Pivot except for Shoulder Turn. Add Accumulator #3 and any needed Shoulder Turn".
I'm not at all familiar with Ben Doyles stuff but remember seeing this Hip powered chipping from this tape in the Gallery. You'll notice Ben come over and grab ahold of Yoda's left pants pocket and pulls his hips. Its hard to make out what he's saying but its something like "Keep the Hands ahead of your Head and the Club by using an Active Pivot....." Or something, its hard to make out.
Not sure how the Hips can be a backstop to an actively extending Right Arm in a literal sense. Pivot Power inducing Centrifugal Throwout and eventual (Passive) Right Arm extension etc I get but "backstop" ? The right arm is attached to the right shoulder, I believe. Are you sure he Actively extends his Right Arm, with a turning Pivot, Pivot Power? Isnt that closing in on Four Barrel chipping? I dunno.
UNLESS USING THE ABOVE, PIVOT POWERED CHIPPING/PITCHING IS A DRILL TO LEARN THE PIVOT AND DRAG LOADING RATHER THAN AN ACTUAL CHIPPING PROCEDURE? That would be a different story, although still outside of 12-5-0. An alternate curriculum for the development of a Total Motion, so to speak.
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Last edited by O.B.Left : 05-22-2010 at 05:39 PM.
Reason: divine intervention
Yes. Frequently as description and demonstration including Hand/Wrist Manipulation. Unfortunately, no analysis of component combinations which afford Hitters to automatically Angle Hinge or Swingers to automatically Horizontal Hinge.
When he "Hits", it's easy to see the Angled Hinge and when he Swings, it's easy to see the Horizontal Hinge. It leads me to believe that he certainly adopts different component variations for Hitting and Swinging.
When he demonstrates Chipping using Full Roll or Half Roll, he uses Hand Manipulation via Swiveling to apply Horizontal Hinging.
So, although he demonstrates Hinging, and applies all of the correct procedures at all times for the Shot, he fails to explain when the Hinging is the automatic result of component variation selection or Hand Manipulation. He understands that the "Roll" in the Swingers Sequenced Release is produced by Body Turn as he fully demonstrates. Unfortunately, in application, he appears to use an "over-swivel" to mimic a Horizontal Hinge. He has no hesitation to Roll his Hands through the Impact Interval.
I'm simple minded so that drives me up the proverbial Wall.
Following a dozen more re-viewing of Bens Chipping, Pitching and full Stroke procedures, it's become clear why he chooses to Hit the Chips, Float the Pitches and Swing the full Strokes. Because it uses the least amount of Adjustments to the Machine. He only needs to change Wrist Action to change Loading Action and switch Accumulators #4 and #1.
He has taken a very complex calculation of Power Application and simplified the Mechanics.
When I chip using Drag Loading; the Set-Up is a daunting challenge. Once accomplished, the stroke is easy. But why bother? Why not simply Stand Square-Square. Changing the Loading is more direct.
I made another observation, although not related, it's interesting to mention. Ben changes Plane Angle a lot. One swing he uses a Double Plane Shift and on the next, he's on the Turned Shoulder Plane. That's not indecision. I think his knowledge, training and execution are so far advanced that he adjusts the Machine to make the Ball behave exactly how he wants. He makes these decisions so fast that it looks almost unconscious. But it's not. I've caught him adjusting onto and feeling the Turned shoulder Plane in his pre-shot routine just before he uses that Plane Angle.
Does he describe the Left Hand and the Associated Basic Plane for Hinge Action? What are the implications of a 10-2-D Left Hand Grip to that procedure? Its must change the geometry, Id imagine.
Following a dozen more re-viewing of Bens Chipping, Pitching and full Stroke procedures, it's become clear why he chooses to Hit the Chips, Float the Pitches and Swing the full Strokes. Because it uses the least amount of Adjustments to the Machine. He only needs to change Wrist Action to change Loading Action and switch Accumulators #4 and #1.
He has taken a very complex calculation of Power Application and simplified the Mechanics.
When I chip using Drag Loading; the Set-Up is a daunting challenge. Once accomplished, the stroke is easy. But why bother? Why not simply Stand Square-Square. Changing the Loading is more direct.
I made another observation, although not related, it's interesting to mention. Ben changes Plane Angle a lot. One swing he uses a Double Plane Shift and on the next, he's on the Turned Shoulder Plane. That's not indecision. I think his knowledge, training and execution are so far advanced that he adjusts the Machine to make the Ball behave exactly how he wants. He makes these decisions so fast that it looks almost unconscious. But it's not. I've caught him adjusting onto and feeling the Turned shoulder Plane in his pre-shot routine just before he uses that Plane Angle.
That sounds like the most complicated mumbojumbo I ever heard of . . . Homer recommended ONE procedure . . . If he didn't have that face slinging around like Steelers towel back in the Steel Curtain days . . . he wouldn't have to do all that shifty mess . . . FANCY GOLF.
Hybrid Mode
