In a swinger's action, do you believe that the 180 degree rotation of the left hand and clubface from the third parallel position (where the toe is up) to the fourth parallel position (where the toe is up) involves active movements of the upper limbs below elbow level?
Here is how Ben Hogan described the action.
""What is the correct integrated motion the two arms and hands make as they approach the ball and hit through it? What does it feel like as it is happening? Well, if there is any motion in sports which it resembles, it is the old two-handed baseketball pass, from the right side of the body."
In a swinger's action, do you believe that the 180 degree rotation of the left hand and clubface from the third parallel position (where the toe is up) to the fourth parallel position (where the toe is up) involves active movements of the upper limbs below elbow level?
Here is how Ben Hogan described the action.
""What is the correct integrated motion the two arms and hands make as they approach the ball and hit through it? What does it feel like as it is happening? Well, if there is any motion in sports which it resembles, it is the old two-handed baseketball pass, from the right side of the body."
He used the following diagram in his book.
Jeff.
Depends on grip type and how the face is in relation to the left arm.
I presume a neutral grip with the clubface parallel to the back of the flat left wrist-hand. I believe that the clubface rotates about 90 degrees between the delivery position (third parallel) and impact, and about another 90 degrees between impact and the fourth parallel position when the toe points up.
It's not critical whether it is 180 degrees or slightly less than 180 degrees eg. 160 degrees. My question relates to whether the 160-180 degree rotation is due to active movements below elbow level or whether it is primarily due to movements occurring at shoulder level +/- the effects of torso rotation.
Image #2 leaves me with the impression of preparation for an "underhand" toss similar to Ballard's shag bag toss. Image #3 however appears to be the result of a sidearm delivery. If the latter is correct, it would suggest a vertical hinge is required when the ball is released. What is the correct delivery of the "old two-handed basketball pass?"
Originally Posted by Jeff
In a swinger's action, do you believe that the 180 degree rotation of the left hand and clubface from the third parallel position (where the toe is up) to the fourth parallel position (where the toe is up) involves active movements of the upper limbs below elbow level?
Here is how Ben Hogan described the action.
""What is the correct integrated motion the two arms and hands make as they approach the ball and hit through it? What does it feel like as it is happening? Well, if there is any motion in sports which it resembles, it is the old two-handed baseketball pass, from the right side of the body."
If one performs a two-handed basketball pass starting from the right side, the hands have to move in a circular motion, and not a straight line motion. Therefore, the first part of the throw motion has the ball moving down-and-out-and-forwards before it move up-and-forwards towards the target.
Also, I presume that Hogan was mainly trying to give a golfer a "feeling" of how the hands move in space. The key point, from my perspective, is that there is no independent right forearm pronation movement and no independent left forearm supination movement when throwing the ball - because that would cause the ball to spin around an imaginary horizontal axis through the ball's center.
The hands rotate in space during the ball throwing action - due to biomechanical actions occurring at the level of shoulder sockets + due to rotation of the torso (which move the shoulder sockets in an arc).
I've always wondered if that graphic is intented to convey putting overspin on the basketball?
Jeff - unless you have perfect, on plane, alignments, I would say yes, for most people there needs to be an active 'action' at release point.
That lead forearm rotation is the single most important, and missing, part of the majority of high handicap motions. While a proper hinge action is the next step, I think most good players got there by first learning to roll the lead forearm with intent (learning to hook), and then backing off to learn a proper hinge.
If you look at someone like J. Miller, he had to roll, and roll hard from top. So did Hogan.
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