1-L Machine Concept #9 Regardless of how Lever Assembly Driven . . .
Originally Posted by EdZ
Think of it as the 'combination' of the flying wedges of the left and right
arms - the tip of the triangle - the point that is part of BOTH wedges, that
makes an on plane circle around the 'center' of the shoulders (which is
actually not the 'top' of the shoulder/shirt label, but slightly below it -
dead center of the shoulder line.
It is also the 'middle ground', between a swinger and a hitter - 'the' point
that is either pulled, or pushed.
It is important to 'see' this point, to 'see' the wedges moving in a
circle around the hub. The body will react very well to this image in
your mind. [Bold by Hoenone.]
I'm going to leave this one with you, Edz.
We're in agreement that the Hands form the 'point' of the Flying Wedges, and
that it is this 'Point' that is driven directly at the Ball (or at the Aiming
Point). I also agree that the Left Arm Flying Wedge (the Lever Assembly) is
always moving in a Circle (per 1-L #9). Where we part ways is that the 'hub'
of this Circle is the Hinge Pin located in the Left Shoulder, not the
'Between the Shoulders' Center you visualize. A simple Zero Pivot Chip or
Pitch Shot will verify this true Geometrical Center of the Stroke Arc.
Nevertheless, the Ball can't read a line of all this, and if what you are
doing -- or even think you are doing -- works for you, then by all
means, keep doing it!
Forgeting anatomy for a second, what is efficient circular motion? A rock on
a string - a stable hub and a constant radius, agreed?.
If you make a left arm only swing (zero body/shoulder motion), yes, you would
have a 'hub' at the left shoulder.
If you make a right arm only swing (zero body/shoulder motion), yes you would
have a 'hub' at the right shoulder.
And if you have both hands on the club and pivot around the spine, that
'total motion' hub of the hands, the tip, can not be either the left
shoulder, nor the right. It may 'seem' to be the left shoulder, because yes,
that IS a point of rotation of the left arm, and it may appear that the right
isn't a component, because the right side of the triangle isn't straight
until past impact (hence the swing 'feels' much more left sided).
In a sound Golf Stroke, the Left Arm swings in an arc around its Center at
the Left Shoulder. In Pivot Strokes, this Stroke Center is in motion around the Pivot Center. The fact that
the Left Shoulder is 'in motion' (and thus produces less than a 'perfect' circle)
does not negate the fact that it is the true geometric center of the
circumerence Traced by the circling Clubhead. Further, the Right Arm never
swings from the Right Shoulder, even in a Right Arm Swing (in which case the Stroke Center is transferred from
the Left Shoulder to the Right Elbow).
Thus, there is ideally only one 'circle' in the Stroke and that is the one
whose circumference is Traced by the Left Arm and Clubshaft Radius.
Attempting to introduce a Right Arm Circle of any kind (in addition to the Left Arm Circle) is
totally unnecessary and, in fact, produces conflicting alignments. Active
or Passive, unless the Right Arm has a Straight Line Piston Motion, you do
not have a sound Stroke.
...the true center of the 'circle' that the hands travel on is the 'center
point' between the shoulders.
...the ground is hit before low point is reached...
IF the left shoulder were the 'center' of the hand/club motion, why then is
the 'steady head' considered so important?
Wouldn't, if the left shoulder were the true center, the 'stable left
shoulder' be as critical? (assuming you agree that efficient circular motion
requires a stable center and radius).
- the true circular path being the 'no margin for error' choice, a straight
line delivery does give more margin for error, but at the expense of
efficient circular motion of the hands.
As with all things, trade offs give you margin for error, which, I would agree,
a straight line thrust does give over a true circular path - but that does
not change the true efficient goal of the rock on a string of the hands...
[Excerpts by Yoda.]
I have numbered the above excerpts from your prior posts and have responded
in bold:
1. ...the true center of the 'circle' that the hands travel on is the 'center
point' between the shoulders.
This statement ignores the Geometry of the Circle and is in direct
conflict with the scientific principles of The Golfing Machine. The
Golf Stroke is a circular motion, and its radius is the Left Arm and
Club. Geometrically, the Center of the Clubhead Orbit lies at one end
of the Radius (the Shoulder) and its Circumference at the other
(the Clubhead).
2. ...the ground is hit before low point is reached...
By definition, the Low Point of the Stroke is directly opposite its
Center, i.e., where the Radius (Left Arm and Club) points directly at the
ground. Accordingly, that Low Point is directly opposite the Left Shoulder.
Therefore, good players take turf when the Ball is positioned at mid-body.
If, on the other hand, the Center of the Stroke were 'between the shoulders,'
then Low Point likewise would be opposite this mid-body center, and there
would be no divot.
3. IF the left shoulder were the 'center' of the hand/club motion, why then
is the 'steady head' considered so important?
(1) To stabilize the Pivot Motion and (2) to provide a center for the
rotating Left Shoulder, i.e., the circumference of the Shoulder Turn.
4. Wouldn't, if the left shoulder were the true center, the 'stable left
shoulder' be as critical? (assuming you agree that efficient circular motion
requires a stable center and radius).
The straight line requirements of the Compression Point do not demand a
'stable left shoulder.' They require only that any Shoulder Motion be
centered. The Stationary Head provides the necessary hub for the
circumference of the Shoulder Turn.
5. If the left shoulder were the center of the motion, wouldn't it be more
efficient to stand in a closed stance, zero out pivot, and just make a circle
with the arm from the shoulder joint?
In a perfect world where Power, Plane and the human body were not
considerations...yes.
6. ...and the low point being below the ground, again we see the 'circle'
appear to shift its center to the left...
There's no appearance of a 'shift to the left' at all. That is
where the Center actually is! As previously stated, the Low Point is
opposite the Left Shoulder -- the Center of the Clubhead Orbit -- not opposite
the Spine.
7. ...the true circular path being the 'no margin for error' choice, a
straight line delivery does give more margin for error, but at the expense of
efficient circular motion of the hands.
A true 'Circle Path' of the Hands requires a Zero Tilt of the Shoulder
Turn Axis (the Spine). In turn, this requires a Zero Hip (Weight) Shift. This
is fine for Short Shots, but its lack of Power renders it impotent for the
Long Game.
8. As with all things, trade offs give you margin for error, which, I would
agree, a straight line thrust does give over a true circular path - but that
does not change the true efficient goal of the rock on a string of the
hands...
The Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club Radius) rotates around its LeftShoulderCenter. The
fact that the Turning Shoulder rotates about its own Axis (the spine) does
not compromise that geometric fact. Nor does it frustrate the 'efficient goal
of the [whirling] rock on a string.' In fact, it enables it!
I applaud your original thinking to this subject. However, due to the obvious
conflicts, one must choose between your concept and the science of Homer
Kelley as described in 2-C-0 and 2-H. I choose the latter.
If the left shoulder is the center of the motion, why the belly putter and not
the 'shoulder' putter....
I personally use the long putter and anchor it as close to my Left Shoulder
as I can get, i.e., above my left pectoral. I do not use the 'belly putter'
because (1) I do not use my Shoulders in the Stroke and (2) I cannot abide
the feeling of a Bent Left Wrist in the Stroke.
If the left shoulder is the center of the motion, why the belly putter and
not the 'shoulder' putter....
I personally use the long putter and anchor it as close to my Left Shoulder
as I can get, i.e., above my left pectoral. I do not use the 'belly putter'
because (1) I do not use my Shoulders in the Stroke and (2) I cannot abide
the feeling of a Bent Left Wrist in the Stroke.
Interesting. I use a long putter and have gone back and forth between using a
torso rocking motion, and just coming back and through with the right arm. So
are you saying you keep everything still and just go back and through with
the trailing arm?
Yes. Everything except the Right Arm remains Stationary, especially the Right
Shoulder. The Right Elbow -- that's where you Feel Right Arm Action -- simply
Bends and Straightens and Drives the Clubhead at the Plane Line in a pure
Piston Action. The major drawback of the 'long putter' is that there is no
Left Wrist for a Hinge Action, and Hinge Action, i.e., Clubface Control and
its Rhythm, is by far the most important aspect of Putting. Therefore, the
Right Hand must assume the dual function of controlling both the Clubhead
-- funneling the Right Arm Drive through Pressure Point #1 or #3 or both -- and also the
Clubface.
In this regard, if you position your Forearm 'pointing at' the Plane
Line and use Push Basic Stroke -- the Elbow moves 'on a line' and does not
Fan -- you will produce automatic Angled Hinging. If you position the Forearm parallel to the Plane Line, you will produce automatic Vertical
Hinging.
One final thought: Be sure to pre-position your Right Shoulder in Fix
according to the length of the Stroke you wish to take. Longer Putts require
a longer Follow Through, and this requires a Right Shoulder that has Turned
further through Impact. On shorter Putts, pre-position the Shoulder higher.
Using this technique you will be able to take all Putting Strokes to
Both Arms Straight. Actually, Right Arm straight! And long putts
-- the supposed bane of those who use the long putter, will be a piece of
cake.
The radius IS constant. You have a circle, you are inside that circle at all
times. You position that circle relative to the ball and ground to ensure lag
at impact and downward contact (well BEFORE full extension - before full
extension of the lever assemblies)
[Bold by Yoda/Yoda.]
First, or the record, there is only one Lever Assembly, and that is of
the Left Arm and Club. The Right Arm drives that Lever Assembly
(actively with Hitting or passively with Swinging). It is not a Component
of the Lever Assembly.
Second, please explain why your Theory demands that both arms be
straight. The geometrical concept of a radius is one straight line --
not two -- from the center of a circle to its circumference.
The radius IS constant. You have a circle, you are inside that circle at all
times. You position that circle relative to the ball and ground to ensure lag
at impact and downward contact (well BEFORE full extension - before full
extension of the lever assemblies)
[Bold by Yoda/Yoda.]
First, for the record, there is only one Lever Assembly, and that is
of the Left Arm and Club. The Right Arm drives that Lever
Assembly (actively with Hitting or passively with Swinging). It is not
a Component of the Lever Assembly.
Second, please explain why your Theory demands that both arms be
straight. The geometrical concept of a radius is one straight line --
not two -- from the center of a circle to its circumference.
Do you agree or disagree on the importance of both arms straight?
Lynn - you
know that I am talking about ONE straight line, from the swing center to the
hands.
It is necessary for both Arms to be straight only at the end of the
Follow-Through. The Follow-Through occurs after Impact and after
Low Point.
My comment referred to your own posts that describe the full radius as not
occuring until both Arms are straight. It was that assertion that I
challenged and invited you to explain.
You have chosen instead to employ the 'you know what I meant' smokescreen.
But even an acceptance of that smokescreen does not explain why a 'line from
the swing center to the Hands' requires both arms straight.
Do you understand the string winding around the center image? That in such an
image, you would have a circle, a constant circle, and that as you wind the
string and unwind the string it would 'snap straight' back to 'full
extension'? It would be 'inside' the circle.
Your 'winding and unwinding string' image demands a Rotated Shoulder Turn (in
both directions); Zero Axis Tilt; and hence, Zero Weight Shift. This means Low
Power.
So, however else you choose to think of it, what you have described in your
image (as a substitute for Mechanics to produce a correct Feel)
is a Rotated Shoulder Turn (10-16-C) with a Shiftless Hip Turn (10-14-C)
and a Circle Path Delivery (10-23-E).
I would seriously advise playing downwind only.
No Lynn,
you do not understand my position at all.
Tell me how your 'winding and unwinding string' image differs -- in the
least little bit -- from the Stroke Pattern I have described. At this time, I
respectfully request zero deviation from that assisgned task.
OK - now, to start, let me clarify what 'you' think I am saying.
Let's look at a horizontal swing. Hands held out in front of you.
Is that the 'extreme' you think I am talking about?
[Bold by Yoda/Yoda.]
No deal. Stick to the assigned task; namely, telling me how the Stroke
Pattern I assigned to your 'string immage' was the least little bit
inconsistent. In case you've forgotten, here is the quote that established
the image:
"Here is another image that might get this across to you:
(from John Jacobs book BTW)
Imagine a circle, with its center and full radius of a piece of string.
Now imagine that center point turned and 'wound up' the string around it. The
string would shorten, the radius would shorten.
Agreed?
Now imagine that center unwound and 'whipped' the string back to full
extension. Always on plane. INSIDE the circle, only touching it at 'full
radius'
That is what I am describing.
Separate from a golf swing, do you understand this concept?"
So, I hereby swear I understand that 'string' concept "separate from a
golf swing." I also understand its mechanical equivalent in terms of a
TGM Stroke Pattern, and I have stated unequivocably its Low Power variation
from the ideal. Now I have asked youto tell me how in the
least little bit it is inconsistent with the 'string' image you have used
to illustrate your theory.
Please, sir, return my serve...or leave centre court.
And long putts
Hybrid Mode
