Thrust vs. Speed - Clubshaft Stiffness (6-C-2-D LAG LOSS) GM#43
Originally Posted by Ray Cayse
To all:
What part, if any, does shaft flex action play in this question? I believe it is critical, because Homer said the secondary lever was both a lever on its own and an element of the primary lever. Let's say that shaft flex action is the element of the primary lever that ties the two together; and that it can be either causing the clubhead to move further away from the golfer (unflexing action) or moving closer to the golfer (re-flexing action) through the impact interval. Wouldn't that cause a speeding up of the clubhead (re-flexing) or resistance to deceleration (unflexing)?
I maintain that both shaft flex actions can and do produce effortless power and accuracy; i.e. two optimum swing methods, when properly leveraged by opposing hand actions.
Ray Cayse
This will no doubt be a controversial post and perhaps even the epicenter of a titanic debate. Nevertheless, it is what it is: Homer Kelley's answer to the question, "What Shaft Flex is best for me?"
Like Henry Ford -- "You can have any color you want...as long as it's black." -- Homer Kelley had one answer to the Shaft Flex question. Here it is in a Q&A format based on our actual January 1982 conversation.
Yoda: Homer, there are many Shaft Flexes available today. Flexible Shafts are recommended for average players, and Stiff Shafts are recommended for the better players. What is your view?
Homer: "Stiff. The stiffer the better."
For all players?
"Yes."
Hitter or Swinger?
"Yes."
Male or female?
Yes.
Strong or weak?
"Makes no difference."
Why?
"Hitters use muscular thrust and need the Stiff Shaft because they are actively pushing against it. That aspect isn't important to Swingers because for them, the Shaft is functioning simply as a piece of string, and Flex is unimportant. Centrifugal Force is straightening the Shaft. However, the stiffer the shaft, the less likely the Clubface is to misalign, and that is important to both Hitters and Swingers."
What about Steel versus Graphite?
"The material makes no difference. You need quality materials, of course...sturdy stuff. Beyond that, I can find no basis for the claims of the manufacturers."
What about players who 'tip' the Shaft, cutting off an inch or two at the bottom to make it even stiffer?
"Sounds like a good idea."
So, Homer, when you say Stiff Shafts for all players, you really mean it.
"If they would make them all axe handles, that would be the best thing."
I need a little fog fighting in the area of the first paragraph of 2-P.
Specifically: "Wristcock is a clubhead motion - not a clubface motion." and the last sentance of the first paragraph.
Thrust vs. Speed - Clubshaft Stiffness (6-C-2-D LAG LOSS) GM#49
Originally Posted by Ray Cayse
Yoda,
How do you suppose Homer would explain some of the trick shots of "Heiter the Hit Man" or the 300 plus yard drives by Fred Couples with Tom Watson's wife's 3 metal a few years back?
Ray Cayse
The explanation was clearly presented in my prior post. However, I will expand on it a bit, then reiterate the principle.
The Sweet Spot seeks its in-line condition with the #3 Pressure Point. This is the Centrifugal Line of Pull that exists regardless of Shaft Flex. As I stated in my earlier post, Shaft Flex is important to the Swinger only to minimize Clubface deviation. It means nothing in terms of power. This fact is clearly demonstrated by Fred Couples -- a consumate Swinger -- ripping the Ball 300 yards with a woman's (presumably) flexible shaft.
That said, Fred Couples would have ripped it 300 yards had the Shaft been Stiff. And maybe it was. Who knows? In any event, it makes no difference, because like Homer said...
Shaft Flex means little to the Swinger. Regardless of Flex, it performs as a piece of string.
I always here about club head swing speed like it is the holy grail for distance. According to Homer it is not. I do not understand the physics.
Why is thrust and "heavy" more important than speed and "dainty"?
Be the Gentle Giant!
Thrust: Keep it high -- or at least decided and definite -- to be sure of the sustained Lag through Impact. Shorten the Stroke if necessary.
Heavy: Sense the Inertia of the additive Effective Mass of the Clubhead (2-M-1).
Speed: You must have it, and you 'gotta love it!' But not at the expense of Stroke Radius and Clubface Control, e.g., by throwing the Clubhead past a Bending Left Wrist through Impact.
Never Dainty: Stay in control. Even in Putts: Don't 'peck.' Instead, Drive to Both Arms Straight!
Why is thrust and "heavy" more important than speed and "dainty"?
2-K has your answer.
When there is effective clubhead mass, the much discussed flat left wrist/bent right wrist, the clubhead has not passed the hands. If and when it does, the clubhead is no longer accelerating - it is decelerating as discussed in 2-K. So, while swing speed rightfully is discussed as a key to distance, it must be accompanied by clubhead lag to really be taken advantage of.
On thrust, see 6-F-1 in addition to the 2-M reference.
There is more on why heavy and dainty are important, like Yoda said, extending the swing radius, hinge action, etc etc....but purely on swing speed itself, 2-K should be what you are looking for.
-Patrick
When the Left Wrist Bends and the Club is thrown, the Shortened Radius (at the Left Wrist) does, in fact, cause the Clubhead to speed up (due to the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum). And, if Impact occurs before the 'Swingle passes the Handle' (2-K), the player has complied with the Law of the Flail. Therefore, it is possible for this procedure to produce a Clubhead Speed greater than that produced by the Flat Left Wrist and the 'Sustained Lag.' But, as I stated in my prior post, this marginal increase in Clubhead Speed comes at a great price:
1. Loss of Stroke Radius, Effective Mass and for Swingers, the built-in resistance to Release Deceleration); and
2. Loss of control of the Clubface (which requires the Flat Left Wrist, Hinge Action and Rhythm).
When the Left Wrist Bends and the Club is thrown, the Shortened Radius (at the Left Wrist) does, in fact, cause the Clubhead to speed up (due to the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum). And, if Impact occurs before the 'Swingle passes the Handle' (2-K), the player has complied with the Law of the Flail. Therefore, it is possible for this procedure to produce a Clubhead Speed greater than that produced by the Flat Left Wrist and the 'Sustained Lag.' But, as I stated in my prior post, this marginal increase in Clubhead Speed comes at a great price:
1. Loss of Stroke Radius, Effective Mass and for Swingers, the built-in resistance to Release Deceleration); and
2. Loss of control of the Clubface (which requires the Flat Left Wrist, Hinge Action and Rhythm).
Sure it is possible that the club could produce greater speeds due to 'throwing' the club then the flat left wrist if it complied with the flail....but it would be highly unlikely.
-patrick
As long as the player maintains a Flat Left Wrist, the Hands and the Clubhead travel at the same RPM around the Left Shoulder Stroke Center. When the Left Wrist Bends, the Hands Quit (3-F-7-B), and Momentum Transfer causes the Clubhead to speed up. Thus, it is not only possible for this phenomenon to occur...it must occur. Why?
The latest Natural Golf infomercial shows a closeup view of the clubhead through impact with a strong closing clubface action. Since little else in their method would produce this geometry, is it not likely that a reflexing (inward) shaft flex action is responsible?
Ray Cayse
I have written often of the potential for Clubface misalignment as the result of Shaft Flex, particularly with the more flexible Shafts at higher Clubhead Speeds. However, since I have not seen the commercial you referenced or the Stroke that produced the Impact, any further comment would be pure conjecture
Hybrid Mode
